Microsoft, Apple, Xerox

Question from E-mail

Some of the more common accusations revolve around the apparent fact that MS borrowed heavily if not stole the Apple/Mac OS and turned it into Windows. What was surprising in the movie was that it appears that Apple obtained the idea of a GUI and mouse from Xerox in what could be described as a similar act of, shall we say, “appropriation”. I’m sure the reality is much more complex than that.

Woz

in Apple’s major lawsuit against Microsoft for copying their “look and feel” it came out that Apple had licensed this technology to them. Microsoft got a very favorable contract. Apple maintained that they had only licensed it for a version of Windows that was still pretty much just a shell on top of DOS. But Microsoft pointed to the phrase “and derivative works.” In my opinion, a real GUI, and even Windows 95, is not a derivative work of these early DOS-Windows hybrids, but a new form of OS, that competes directly with MacOS. But the judge didn’t see it that way.

How is your relationship with Steve Jobs?

Question from E-mail

How is your relationship with Steve Jobs? Are you folks still friends? I remember back in 1992 when I saw my first NeXT Station and NeXT Cube made by the NeXT Computer company whom Steve Jobs started after his departure from Apple. I was in college then and NeXT sent a rep to our annual computer fair at the Unviersity of Florida campus. I immediately fell in love with the sleek lines on this new machine but of course I could never afford it. Since that time I have admired Steve Jobs both for the incredible NeXT Station and the NeXTSTEP OS. However, his personality as depicted in the movie was very disturbing. Was he looking for ways to motivate his employees or was it just a power trip he was on? You may abstain from answering this question if you feel it is to sticky an issue.

Woz

I admired taking bold steps like not having a floppy or hard disk, but it’s only worthwhile when it works out. The first NeXT Cube had too many problems.

The depiction of Steve’s personality in the movie is quite accurate and I suppose that Steve is happy with it. Although Steve almost always acted and spoke as though he was more right than anyone else, he only sometimes engaged in the activities portrayed, such as berating employees. I’ve heard from enough employees to know about these outbursts although I fortunately never witnessed one. Steve would probably tell you that these were artists who had to be treated that way to get the great art out of them, that anything just adequate wasn’t what they were capable of. Also, others that aren’t performing like great artists aren’t worth keeping in Steve’s eye. It’s a very debatable issue, but I won’t debate it with Steve. We’re different here.

Who is “Al Luckow”?

Question from E-mail

Who is “Al Luckow”?

Woz

He’s a fine person who is a friend of another friend that often hangs out at my casual office (with T1’s and other facilities) who one day offered to redo my web site, which badly needed redoing, just because he was nice and liked the sorts of things I do. He is spending as much time as I am. Every email I send, he analyzes for web possibilities. I’m sure to offend some people since I give no notice [as far as what to post].

Thank you

Comment from E-mail

I want to thank you for your contributions and for the US Fest. I would do just about aything to get the complete footage from the show BTW!! ; ) I also still have my Apple IIe that my dad got for me. I have every slot filled except for slot 3! I did tons of BASIC on that!

Woz

Serious Apple Computer!

Inaccurate ending of “Pirates”

Comment from E-mail

I was not terribly happy with the very inaccurate ending of “Pirates.” If I remember correctly, Microsoft helped Apple in order to not be sued by Apple for infringing on Apple’s patents. Microsoft agreed to work on Office for the Mac and they also agreed to buy non-voting stock (which could be converted) in order to keep Apple from suing them… What is your spin!

Woz

You see what many miss, exactly. Plus, the stock is essentially from the shareholders, paid for with dilution, and is worth as much as it costs, on the average. So Microsoft lost nothing, Apple gained $125M, and it’s shareholders lost $125M. But that loss was really a necessary and proper investment which was recovered (by the shareholders) once it helped the company become more healthy.

Your signature on the Mac

Comment from E-mail

In the comments I just read that you didn’t work on the Macintosh. Why did my school’s first Mac have your Woz signature on it? Just wondering.

Woz

After college and putting on some large rock concerts, I returned to Apple. John Sculley was just arriving and right away took resources off the losing Apple /// computer and revived the Apple ][. I was part of an engineering team trying to design a new and faster Apple ][. That project, the Apple ][x, got cancelled. By then, I was consumed with speeches and interviews and the like and couldn’t design so I had my salary reduced below the real engineers. They soon thereafter went to the drawing boards again and came up with the workable approach of the Apple ][ GS, with a correct and plausable way of doing the graphics in particular.

The Apple ][GS team recognized me as a symbol of and some of the inspiration for this project. I was asked to supply a signature for a limited edition model. I gave a signature, figuring it was for 100 or 200 computers. But one day I was told that they made 50,000 of these. I was quite blown away.

Your impressions of Steve and Apple today?

Question from E-mail

Hello Mr. Wozniak – It is a pleasure to be able to address the person who had such a profound impact on the personal computer revolution. By your accomplishments, you have indirectly shaped millions of lives, whether as a consumer or computer professional.I just recently found your website and have been a loyal Mac user for quite some time. Not that these facts entitle me to ask you a question, but here goes anyway. Steve Jobs is back at the interim healm of Apple. What are your impressions of Steve and Apple today? Has he mellowed with age? Is the iMac his brainchild? Apple lovers are thrilled to experience the renewed energy that is coming from Cupertino. Any thoughts or comments from you would be welcome.Thanks again, David Albers Laguna Niguel, CA

Woz

Apple has always been ‘the place to be’ whether we’re doing fine or in deep waters. Steve brought a lot of newness back to Apple. I wouldn’t say that it changes Apple’s position per se, but it inspires Apple loyalists to remain so and keep up the passionate side. It also gives the company a lot of needed credibility in the eyes of the financial community.

I was their chief engineer

Comment from E-mail

During my Apple II affair, I also used many Apple clones like the Franklin Ace 1000, and the Cherry computer, then later the “Laser 128″… How did you feel when these companies basically copied the Apple ][ roms? As I remember, almost all of the ROM entry points were at the same address, and a lot of the ROM routines were byte-for-byte the same. Did this trigger any legal action from Apple?

Woz

I was shocked that they could copy these ROMs, and copy the PC board too. But I got the president of Franklin to tell the press that I was their chief engineer.

Apple should be more open

Question from E-mail

Do you think Jobs will ever “Get it”? Let me explain what I mean. The PC was a bad computer. It was slow and had a poor OS. What I feel made the PC take off was the fact that the systems were open. Within a year of the release of the first IBM you had several other companies making the same products. When IBM went to the PS/2 (Micro BUS) to cut out competers, the PS/2 failed, so IBM learned and went back to the ISA/EISA/PCI bus and now IBM is doing better. Apple allowed Clones 3 years ago and did badly (I think because the quality went down on the MAC for a while then it came back). My point is do you think Apple will ever open it’s system again? I feel they should have opened the first MACs back in 84. If they had, Apple might own part of MS, not the other way around. I would like any of your comment or personal observation.

Woz

We did so well in the days when we had extremely open products. But Steve Jobs has always tried to make them tighter and more closed. He says that it’s beneficial to the user not to have all the many permutations of configurations.

We basically only had one disagreement over the Apple ][ design. He tried to get me to go with 2 slots instead of 8. I stood for 8 and told him he could find another computer. Call it artistic license. It paid off in the long run. But from that day on, he always tries to have less flexablitiy and variation possible in our computers than PC’s have. He tries to define a machine for one purpose and precisely configured for it. But people always want other things too.

You find a ton of people like I was once, engineers and technicians, who can buy PC subassemblies and chips and can make breadboards and you don’t even have magazines telling how to do this on Macs. I have no further comment.

Open Source

Question from E-mail

How do you feel about the Open Source “revolution”? Do you think that projects like Linux, Apache, Gnome and KDE are rekindling the same kind of spirit as the Homebrew Computing Club? Also, do you see this as being the source of great new innovation, or do you think that new technology are destined to come ala committee’s of uber corporations?

Woz

Open source attracts open minds. That’s good.

The Internet never cease to amaze me

Comment from E-mail

Greetings Mr. Woz, I have to say like the others, I am impressed at your ingenuity, kindness, compassion and general overall outlook on life. It is amazing and an honor that I can simply open a program and write you a letter to you in this day in age. You started this wonderful trend of the information age, and I’m sure you know we all thank you. To this day computers, and the Internet never cease to amaze me. Would a letter I handwritten to you 10 years ago ever get to you? Probably not?

Woz

Every letter like that would have gotten to me and very likely gotten a personal reply. Some days I can’t get to all the mail however. Back in Apple days I didn’t believe in a secretary and my own phone rang and I answered all my own mail.

I am a huge fan

Question from E-mail

I’m giddy about the fabled ‘consumer portable’ that (in theory) will be announced at MWNY… is there anything you can share with us on this project or will Apple not be too happy?—————-NO…Steve – Do you have a Newton / PalmPilot / Other PDA? Just curious…

Again, I am a huge fan. (Isn’t it weird going from a guy who built computers for a homebrew computer club to being someone with almost a cult following? =) ) My first computer was the IIgs with that “Woz” signature on it; it was in many ways a much better machine than a bunch of the stuff you’ll find out there today (especially on the peecee side of things…). And I love reading what you have to say about Pirates! B.K.

Woz

Yes, a Newton Message Pad 2100. I used to like to use it for taking notes. But it’s sort of obsolete now. I have a PalmPilot but I don’t intend to live by it.

Does Steve Jobs know how to code?

Question from E-mail

I’m a comp sci major (unfortunately not engineering) and a child development minor, so I am a really big fan of everything that you’ve been doing and am interested in doing similar things some day. I have a few questions that I would love to hear your responses to: – Does Steve Jobs know how to code? Is he an engineer (i.e. did he know what the heck you were doing when you were building the Apple?)

Woz

Steve didn’t ever code. He wasn’t an engineer and he didn’t do any original design, but he was technical enough to alter and change and add to other designs. I did all of the Apple I and Apple ][ myself, including the feature choices. I did all of the BASIC myself (it’s in handwriting as I couldn’t afford an assembler). The only person who helped write some of the Apple ][ code was Allen Baum, who helped with the ‘monitor’ program.

Would you ever go back to Apple?

Question from E-mail

My questions are these: (1) why did Jobs leave Apple? (2) will Apple be able to go after the home computer market with the iMac and regain its dominance as the personal computer maker it should be? (3) would you ever go back to Apple?

Woz

Quite a few people in the company saw Steve’s management style as bad for Apple and not in line with how they ran companies. Steve tried to wrench the company on a different path, and schemed to try and have our CEO, John Sculley, removed. John caught wind of it and things wound up with Steve having the freedom to start a project of his own but not to manage the Macintosh or other Apple products at that time. It was like a strong demotion. Steve took it very hard and personal. Instead of trying to do something positive within Apple, he left to try and outdo Apple on his own. It left a feeling among most Apple people of disloyalty to Apple.

My own feeling is that Steve thought he was so great that he would succeed larger than Apple outside of Apple. Also, that he didn’t like finding that he was not on top at Apple. He would say that he seemed meant for this great role in life and that it was impossible to do within Apple any longer and that’s why he left. There are a lot of credible explanations, but the truth is hard to know for sure.

The iMac has some impressive sales figures, but it hasn’t brought Apple out of a dangerously low market share. Something more revolutionary will be needed for that.

I can’t see myself going back to Apple. I don’t like stress and conflicts and I have a great life even though I’m constantly busy.

Is it a fantasy?

Comment from E-mail

Dear Woz, Hello. It’s a wonderful thing that you allow yourself to be so accesable. I found your site as well as your comments to exhibit a great sense of humor. I should know, since I work in a comedy club! Let me cut to the chase… My grandfather was Sam Lang. He and Robert Howard (of Howtek) founded the Centronics Data Corp. in 1968, and together they invented the dot-matrix printer, and parallel port. Why am I boring you with this? Here’s why: When my grandfather died, he left me a schematic diagram and 10 page description for a device he called the “digital cache”. It appears to be a tape drive like an Iomega Ditto drive, but according to his documents, with a 3 million Gigabyte capacity. It’s intended purpose was for video archiving. I don’t believe an item with that high a capacity in a small size has yet been invented, so it’s possible that this may be something. Unfortunately, I know very little about this stuff, so I can’t tell if it’s a great thing, a 10 year old thing, or a fantasy. And I’m afraid to show anyone else, because if it’s a real thing, who could I trust. Only you perhaps, which is why I am writing. Please respond and let me know how I can fax or mail you these documents. Thanks for your time.

Woz

It sounds like a good idea. The need for video archiving is fast approaching. I recently cut back my own HD size and I had to toss a lot of videos that I always liked to play to entertain others and myself. One day I was wondering where all the camera and data and video media types wind up. A friend replied, instantly, “RAM.” He indicated that we might someday have a RAM card the size of a stamp or something with enough capacity to hold hundreds of videos. Then what does it all mean? Where does life head when this is possible? I wish I could be here when it’s reached, but it’s a long way off.

You should have the crown jewel

Comment from E-mail

I think that your jestures with the Apple stocks and now helping children is very admirable. In my humble opinion, if this were a perfect world, then you would have been the one to walk off with the “crown jewel.” Not that you haven’t done so bad yourself, of course. But it is refreshing to read of someone with some morals these days who never let success go to his head.

Woz

Thanks for seeing this and feeling the way you do. I am an ideal hero and image for young people, because of how I treated people and the morals that I held on to, as well as being a great engineer and helping start this industry.

The Breakout Atari project

Comment from E-mail

I just read that the Breakout Atari project was a scam and that you didn’t know it until you read about it in a book on a plane. It say’s you were hurt by it (I would be too) deeply. It shows you are a forgiving person to let that slide then, and to seemingly harbor no bad will toward Jobs now.

Woz

That’s my approach to all of life’s conflicts and setbacks. I’m very forgiving and it would give me a worse feeling head if I kept sadness inside. Better to forgive and forget and remain friends. Good things can come out of that.

I think that you just got tired

Comment from E-mail

I also see in the same book, (Infinate Loop) that you lost your drive and your edge, and that some say you got caught up being the WOZ….. I think that you just got tired.

Woz

It’s possible that I lost my drive and edge. But did I lose my drive and then go in other directions because of it, or did I go in other directions and find great satisfaction and let some things, like engineering, slip away? The truth is closer to the latter. My kind of intense, best in the world, engineering was very very hard and I knew that no human could keep it up for long. When I departed Apple a second time it was to start a company and make a small programmable remote control. I did engineering and wrote the code for one of the internal microprocessors myself. I used a Mac, an Apple ][c, and an Apple ][e throughout this development, those were my main tools (the Mac for non-engineering things). The code for the second, and main, microprocessor wasn’t coming easily so I flew to Hawaii to work on it for a week without phone calls and interruptions. Every day for a month I loved looking out to the sea. I came back and decided right then to hire other engineers for this task. I looked more at my young children. Other personal changes ensued. I’ve remained pretty comfortable ever since, although I never have a minute without something to do. But what do you expect with lots of kids still in school.

I do feel more tired today than back ‘then’ and I do want to take life easy. But I remember while designing the Apple I and Apple ][ explaining to people that I was actually lazy, and designed things with very few chips so I’d have less construction to do and less to debug. I used this ‘laziness’ excuse with my software being tight also. Maybe I believed in laziness even back then, even while I designed 2 computers and peripherals and wrote BASIC and much more code, all in a year, all while working days at Hewlett Packard.

Has Jobs grown any?

Comment from E-mail

In your mind, has Jobs grown any? And what is your true feelings towards Win9x? i just started using a Mac and OS 8.1. it seems clunky compared to Win9x.

Woz

I knew Steve Jobs from when he was very young. Of course he’s grown a lot. But some of the personality traits can be traced back even to those times. I’d say he grew up and lives an adult life now. But that’s not attractive to me. I decided when I was young and idealistic that I didn’t want to grow up and get the adult evilness in me. I always wanted to have a fun life no matter what I did for work. I did not include drugs and partying in my fun, just humor and pranks and strange adventures and weird friends. I have done the best at staying young of all the people that I know, and I’m very happy.

HyperCard and HyperTalk

Comment from E-mail

Reading all the comments has been incredible! Your life, as well as yourself in general, is incredibly interesting. Hopefully your legacy will keep living on for decades to come. But, to keep this short: did you ever think the computer would really become this mainstream? Did you even want it to become this mainstream? Luckily, we had a lab full of Apple IIGS in grade school. My dad sprung to get a IIGS (with a RAM expansion card and 3.5″ floppy, which I thought never should’ve been called a floppy) , so I was the only 2nd grader who knew how to work the machines when something wrong happened. Ah, good ol’ open apple-control-restart. Amazingly enough, even when my dad wanted to get a real Macintosh at the time, he instead got a IIGS because I said “I want a color screen!” 🙂 I’ve still got that IIGS right around the corner here in the house, too… And of course, HyperCard is still high up on my list of priorities…I still get register’s from my first game made in HyperCard (fishing game) . Btw, I’m 15 now. Me being able to make a fishing game when I was 13 says a lot about how great a product was put out then. Did you happen to have any input on HC? Thanks a lot for your time! (this got way too long!)

Woz

Back in the earliest days we felt sure that computers belonged in every home and would one day be there, even if they were just 4K machines!

I’m glad to hear about your HyperCard game programming. Hypercard is an amazing system of a very complete environment covering many bases, and the most natural writing programming language ever, that obeys human rules before computer rules. I loved teaching how to write puzzles and games in the HyperTalk language. I’m glad for you if that’s what you’re doing.